tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8433320860790514779.post8863485489936176585..comments2023-11-02T07:48:48.715-04:00Comments on Arminian Perspectives: John Fletcher on Being "Dead in Sin"kangaroodorthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04172265279507643348noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8433320860790514779.post-35140761901038051542007-10-04T10:06:00.000-04:002007-10-04T10:06:00.000-04:00Chris,I think it should be noted that neither Armi...Chris,<BR/><BR/>I think it should be noted that neither Arminians nor Calvinists generally view the order in a temporal fasion. I believe that temporally, faith and regeneration do occur simultaneously. The issue is the logical order, which is still very important. So without any temporal consideration we could state the opposing views as follows:<BR/><BR/>Arminianism:<BR/><BR/>The moment someone believes [as a necessary condition] he or she is both justified and regenerated.<BR/><BR/>Calvinism:<BR/><BR/>The moment someone is regenerated he or she believes [as a necessary "effect" of regeneration] and is justified.kangaroodorthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04172265279507643348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8433320860790514779.post-51878565047609214982007-10-03T16:29:00.000-04:002007-10-03T16:29:00.000-04:00You might also like to check out my posts "Does Re...<I>You might also like to check out my posts "Does Regeneration Precede Faith?", and "Does Jesus teach that Regeneration Precedes Faith in John 3:3,6" as well as my two posts on John 6:44. I think you will find the positive arguments you are looking for there, and I would love to here what you think of them.</I><BR/><BR/>Yeah I've been trying to think very critically about regeneration preceding faith; it seems impossible to think that the Scriptures say it comes after faith and impossible to think that they say it comes before. Simultaneous? I'm thinking it out, praying about it, working through it.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01031326393348341210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8433320860790514779.post-67171990975900452152007-10-03T16:27:00.000-04:002007-10-03T16:27:00.000-04:00By the way, kangaroodort, that's a very witty nick...By the way, kangaroodort, that's a very witty nickname ;-) I can appreciate why Arminianistic Christians would consider the Synod of Dordt a kangaroo court.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01031326393348341210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8433320860790514779.post-54053836495877943482007-10-03T16:26:00.000-04:002007-10-03T16:26:00.000-04:00Hey Chris,You said,Remember, it's not enough to ca...Hey Chris,<BR/><BR/>You said,<BR/><BR/><I>Remember, it's not enough to cast doubt on your opponent's views, you must also strongly defend your own if you want to convince a reader.</I><BR/><BR/>You might also like to check out my posts "Does Regeneration Precede Faith?", and "Does Jesus teach that Regeneration Precedes Faith in John 3:3,6" as well as my two posts on John 6:44. I think you will find the positive arguments you are looking for there, and I would love to here what you think of them.kangaroodorthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04172265279507643348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8433320860790514779.post-9319925197728300602007-10-03T16:25:00.000-04:002007-10-03T16:25:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01031326393348341210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8433320860790514779.post-75503674914988634302007-10-03T16:23:00.000-04:002007-10-03T16:23:00.000-04:00On the other hand, Christopher, how can you be so ...On the other hand, Christopher, how can you be so certain that <I>your</I> interpretation of the word "dead" in Ephesians 2:1 is correct?<BR/><BR/>A good point, Christopher. I'll be thinking about it some more.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01031326393348341210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8433320860790514779.post-29427840916260814192007-10-03T16:17:00.000-04:002007-10-03T16:17:00.000-04:00To assert that other verses have different meaning...To assert that other verses have different meanings for the word "dead" (which, even before reading this article I would admit is correct) does <I>not</I> in-and-of-itself prove that "death" in Ephesians 2:1 is speaking about <I>a certain degree</I> of inability. I'd like to read part 2 of this blog article to see if Fletcher can assert his interpretation credibly.<BR/><BR/>Remember, it's not enough to cast doubt on your opponent's views, you must also strongly defend your own if you want to convince a reader. From this blog article all I can see that Fletcher has done is cast doubt, not defend his own interpretation of Ephesians 2:1.<BR/><BR/>I'll have to read part 2 later.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01031326393348341210noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8433320860790514779.post-46869405336154716462007-09-21T08:41:00.000-04:002007-09-21T08:41:00.000-04:00pca,Thanks for the links.pca,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the links.kangaroodorthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04172265279507643348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8433320860790514779.post-42681308827544548442007-09-14T11:24:00.000-04:002007-09-14T11:24:00.000-04:00You can download, for free, the whole works of Joh...You can download, for free, the whole works of John Fletcher on Internet Archive.<BR/><BR/>http://www.archive.org/details/fletchersworks01fletuoft<BR/><BR/>http://www.archive.org/details/fletchersworks02fletuoft<BR/><BR/>http://www.archive.org/details/fletchersworks03fletuoft<BR/><BR/>http://www.archive.org/details/fletchersworks04fletuoft<BR/><BR/>Nos just Fletcher's works, but 3 volumes of Christian Theology, of William Burt Pope, some volumes of the whole works of Richard Watson, including Theologica Institutes, Discourses on the Five Points of Daniel Whitby, seven volumes of the works of Wesley, etc.<BR/><BR/>Hope you enjoy them!Paulo Cesar Antuneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07595419893522109729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8433320860790514779.post-62387406235825752702007-09-11T08:57:00.000-04:002007-09-11T08:57:00.000-04:00The four volume set is called "Checks to Antinomia...The four volume set is called "Checks to Antinomianism". From what I have read so far every volume deals with Calvinism to some extant. Ages Library divides Flether's "Works" into four volumes which include more of his writings than just his "Checks".<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the resource. Many of the volumes at www.abebooks.com that are affordable are in poor condition.<BR/><BR/>I recommend the Wesleyan Heritage Collection because it has Fletchers "Works", Wesley's "Works", and the "Works" of James Arminius. It also has numerous commentaries by early Methodist writers like Adam Clarke, as well as excellent theology volumes by Richard Watson and Thomas Ralston. All for what you would probably pay for a beat up set of "Checks to Antinomianism" somewhere else. The only criticism I have is some poor editing in some of the works [spelling errors etc.].kangaroodorthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04172265279507643348noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8433320860790514779.post-24569163148021732452007-09-11T01:14:00.000-04:002007-09-11T01:14:00.000-04:00Question:"A Check to Antinomianism" was four volum...Question:<BR/><BR/>"A Check to Antinomianism" was four volumes long. Which one dealt with Calvinism? Also, there are copies available on www.abebooks.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com